"Living abroad, a trully chalenge for a foreigner"

[Celso Arrais]

Hi Everyone,
I'm going to Canada to study english and french for six months. I'll live there with a canadian family and I'll be there alone. I intend to enjoy this to tell you about my first impressions and to change experiences with you. The discussion goal is mainly to understand the fellings in a such situation and the best manner to treat with it.

What do you think about, would you like to talk about, please feel free to post a topic .
I invite you to accompany my canada stay for six months from next march 08

See you guys,

[Dennis Oliver]

Oí, Celso.

It's exciting to hear about your plans to go to Canada to study French.

When, in March, will you be leaving Brazil?

Where will you go in Canada? Will you go to Quebec or to some other area?

I admire your decision to study French in Canada. I also admire your decision to live with a French-speaking family. I think that the best way to learn a language is to live in an area where you will hear that language every day and where you will have to use it for basic communication. It's not the easiest way to learn, but it's very, very effective since you will be doing much more than studying isolated exercises from a book or completing homework assignments for a class that meets only a few hours each week. It will also be real. You will learn how people use French in both formal and informal situations, and you will learn slang and idioms that you would probably not learn in a class.

I look forward to hearing more about your plans and I look forward even more to hearing about your experiences in Canada!

Very best wishes—

Dennis in Phoenix

[Celso Arrais]

Oi Dennis,

I'll be leaving Brazil next march 08. I'll live in Montréal (Quebec) for six months, untill september.
My project it's more than to live with a French-speaking family. I'll live there with a English-French speaking family and I'm also enrolled in the Point 3 Centre Languages a English-French School. The Point3 Course offer a 25 hours a week of intensive immersion course in both languages (not at the same time), The School provide many city tour (seasight I think, I forgot this word, please clear me), meetings, weekends activities, trips to the nearby cities, besides I knew a conversation group wich promote meets every saturday to discuss whathever in french or english in order to improve french language skils. This group is called meet up, you can know about visiting the site bellow:

http://www.meetup.com/

I know some Brazilian people there and I keep in touch with them because I can to have some needs.
I'm sure it isn't the easiest way to learn english and french but I think it's the best way for me to consolidate my languages knowledges, because, living in Brazil I don't have greats opportunities to practice the languages.
In addition I think it'll be a great personal experience for me. I've never lived abroad, my single experience was in France for a week.
I intend to tell you everything about my trip and to receive good advices. I want to clear this forum isn't limited to accompany my trip more than it I intend to discuss how hard is to live abroad far from your habits, meals, family, friends. To discuss factors facilitators of that process, change experiences, and so on.

You are my guest to start telling us something about, go on!!

Thanks very much,

Celso in Brazil, for a while!!!!

[Dennis Oliver]

Oí outra vez, Celso.

I think it will be a wonderful experience for you to spend time with a bilingual (English-French) family and wish you the very best. The intensive course at the Point 3 Language Centre sounds very challenging, but I think it will also be a way to absorb as much French and English as you want within a short period of time. Go for it!

It's a real plus that the school also provides many city tours. Sightseeing will be an excellent way to absorb the atmosphere and culture on Montréal, and it will also allow you to hear many varieties of spoken French and English.

I'm also glad you have some Brazilian friends in Montréal; I know that Montréal has a Portuguese community, and I also know that there are a number of Portuguese restaurants there. It's very important, I think, to have a way to re-connect with your first language and culture, and especially so when you're studying other languages intensively. I've heard many students say that they got "brain aches" from hearing English (Spanish, Portuguese, German, Japanese, etc.) all day long and needed to speak and hear their first language sometimes as a way to relieve the pressure of working so hard in their newer languages. I've also heard many students say that they got "hungry" to hear their mother tongue! I've felt these same things myself, and as long as you don't spend all of your spare time speaking Portuguese with your Brazilian friends, I think it's wonderful that you will be able to connect with them.

In addition, I've heard many people say that when they become comfortable speaking another language, they actually become a different person. I've felt this way myself, but not recently—because I haven't had the opportunity to communicate mostly in Spanish or some other language. I'll be interested to hear whether you become a different person, too!

Thank you for starting this very interesting discussion!

Até mais ver!

Dennis in Phoenix

[Celso Arrais]

Oi Dennis,

I thought very very interesting your comments. I read it and read again three times in order to think about all sentences.
Sometimes I ask myself if is to study abroad very good for me or not, so when I hear motivation's words like the yours I got comfortable.
it's very important for who is going to study abroad to know so much things about it destination and it daily by information coming from who know it, because there are some level of insecurity itself (doubts). It'll be going to the unknown.
About the first days' pressure I would call it "Brain storm" instead of "Brain each" because the pressure is very big in the first days. It isn't easy to change your mind after some hours after you've left your hometown and to arrive at the airport from a foreigner country the first time, I've felt it already when I went to france speaking only my poor english. Immediately you feel lost and you need really to keep calm.
I've never thought about the personal changes effect it is unknown for me and I don't get to think how is it, could you explain it for me please, surely I'll tell you about my impressions.

I intend to keep distance from my mother tongue at least a month in order to do a really immersion, but, do you known Brazilian People, It will be very difficulty to do there are already friends scheduling a barbecue at the first sunny spring day!
Thanks for clear me about the word "sightseeing" I really had been forgotting it and thanks a lot for your advices, comments and oppinios it's very important for me and whoever is visiting our forum.

Thanks a lot, nice to see you again and keep in touch with me.

Até mais ver!!

Celso in Brazil

[Dennis Oliver]

Olá, Celso.

I'm really, really happy that my remarks were motivating for you!

Moving into new territory is always a challenge, isn't it? However, I think we usually find that once we have arrived at this new territory, our earlier insecurities begin to lessen . . . and that they continue to lessen as we become more familiar with our new environment. But you're right: the pressure is enormous at first.

I like your description of the initial pressure as a "brain storm." I didn't use that phrase, however, because in American English, "brainstorm" has two entirely opposite meanings. See this URL:

http://onelook.com/?w=brainstorm&ls=a

As to personal changes, they seem to vary from person to person. I think what most people experience, as they become more and more comfortable in a new language and culture, is a different way of thinking and a different way of responding to cultural stimuli. Many things can be involved: facial expressions, gestures, distance from people when having a conversation, learning slang and idioms that are commonly used but are mostly untranslatable . . . . For some people, it becomes even more extensive. I know people who actually walk differently and whose voices actually change when they "switch" into their X-language persona. (I have an American friend, for example, who is bilingual in English and Thai. When she speaks Thai, her voice is softer and higher and she seems to get smaller, physically. If you only hear her, you would swear that she is Thai, not American.)

Yes, I know it will be difficult to use English and French because of all those friendly Brazilian barbecues, but the barbecues are important, too. The critical thing is that you use the English and French that will be all around you to best advantage: the intensive sessions in class will be very, very good, but what is even more important is using what you learn outside of class.

I'm sure you're going to have a wonderful time in Canada and I'm equally sure that your trip will be a fantastic learning experience for you!

I'll definitely keep in touch!

All the best to you, Celso!

Até logo—

Dennis in Phoenix

[Celso Arrais]

Hi Dennis,

It has been being our discussing very productive for me. Yes it is always a challenge and the earlier insecurities lessen gradually at measure we become more and more familiar with the new environment.

I saw the definitions for "Brainstorm" and I laughed too much, actually I meant:
"To Think quickly and creatively: to generate creative ideas spontaneously, usually for problem-solving, and especially in an intensive group discussion that does not allow time for reflection"

I not meant:
Insanity, ahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

Now I know what you mean with personal changes. it's more clear for me when I speak french. The french language request a soft and delicate pronunciation. it's seem for brazilian people like a "Gay" because the brazilian men steriotype is rude. When I went to france to participate a world wide congress I talked with people from Asia and the girls from china for example didn't like to shake hands, and she keept middle distance from you while talking, while the ones from Brazil gaven a hug and besides a kiss on your face without cerimony. Well, I hope I don't came back from canada as a gay neither so distant from everyone! ahahahahaha!

it's always a pleasure to talk with you, I'm feel very comfortable. Please keep in touch really!

All the best to you too, Dennis,

até logo,

Celso in Brazil

[Dennis Oliver]

Oí, meu amigo Celso.

I'm glad (but not surprised) that you realize that the initial "panic" that you might feel when you arrive in Canada will soon fade away. I'm very sure you'll use your six months there as a very productive and memorable learning experience.

Those two meanings of "brainstorm" are interesting, aren't they—especially when you consider that they are actually opposites!

Yes, the difference in how people speak French (vs how people speak Portuguese) is definitely one of the personal changes that I referred to, and the difference between Asian behavior and Western behavior regarding distance and shaking hands are definitely others. It will be impossible, I think, for you to come back from Canada as a "changed Celso," but it will be entirely possible that you will create an ADDITIONAL Celso—and maybe even two different Celsos. I'm particularly interested in what you "English Celso" will be like!

Here's something interesting. My mother's family was kind of Mediterranean (loud, quick to hug and kiss, usually stood close to others, very talkative) while my father's family was more or less Northern European (quiet, no hugs or kisses, always had distance from others, much less talkative) and these people got along very well individually, but when they met in groups, they just couldn't function. They alwas separated into the two separate families, and only a few people moved back and forth from one family to the other because they had such different ideas of appropriate social behavior.

I enjoy keeping in touch with you, Celso. These conversations are fascinating!

I hope you and João will be able to spend time together in Montréal!

More best wishes—e abraços fuertes também!

Dennis in Phoenix

[Celso Arrais]

Oi meu amigo Dennis,

Wise words my friend, that's why I love to change experiences with you. Really, it's better not to use the expresion "Brain Storm" it can cause missinterpretation.

I hope my english will likes so better than It is today, about it I'm going to record a sample of my today's english using voicethread provide by carla to compare it after my return.

Well, I would like to do a approaching that I think it will be good for this discussion.
I think my planning and organization It will help me at that first moment in Canada, because I have been preparing myself for that since one year ago. I'm imagine this maybe is one of the first steps to be taken, to try planning your trip very well.
For example, I've knew some people there, among them some Brazilian people whose will go to welcome me at airport. It certainly will reduce my level of stress and it'll became me more comfortable, besides I have been creating a "netfriends" and I keept in touch with them all year long, it include you and our listenning groupe. My netfriends has been and will be supporting me in many aspects, wich are: welcoming, language, local community integration, creation of very good opportunities to improve my spoken and listen skills, accomodation at many places where I intend to go.
I've been scheduling, from here, several fromal and informal meets in Montreal whose will help me to reach my goal (to improve both english and french), to know the place and it main characteristics, to face the weather, to take advantage of the local amusement and allow me save money also.

It will be very good to read again all this theories when finally everything has already happened because we'll discovery what was wrong or different in your thinking.

I invited João to take part in our discussion because he is going to Canada (Vancouver and Toronto) in the midlle of the year to study english also.

Um forte abraço para você tambem Dennis,

Celso Arrais in Brazil for a while

[Dennis Oliver]

Olá, meu amigo Celso.

I'm sorry I'm a little slow in replying to your message above.

I don't see any problem in using "brainstorrm" as long as the meaning becomes clear in a post or conversation. Sometimes, as a matter of fact, it's good to use expressions with multiple meanings: doing so causes the reader to think about which meaning is intended.

I think recording a sample of your English now and then doing the same thing after your time in Montréal is a wonderful idea. I greatly look forward to hearing the recording that you will make after you return to Brazil.

I think you're doing a splendid job of preparing for your trip to Canada. I feel confident that a great deal of the initial stress that people often encounter when they are in a new country for the first time comes from not knowing what to expect, and it sounds to me as if you are doing a wonderful job getting "advance information" and also formulating strategies for dealing with everything (from weather to customs to language) that you will encounter. I think it's particularly good that you have a network of friends already established in Montréal. I'm sure they've already given you a lot of very helpful local information, and I'm equally sure that they will be a wonderful means of support while you're in Canada. By means of this network, you already know a great deal about Montréal and Canada and will not have to discover this information on your own.

I agree that it will be interesting to come back here after your time in Canada and to re-read the theories and experiences you and others have written about. It will be fascinating, I think, to see how your experiences "fit" with what's being written here now and it will be equally fascinating to see how your actual experiences differ from what you initially expected.

I also think it's a good idea for João to be part of this discussion. It will also be very interesting to read his reactions while he's in Vancouver and Toronto.

Outro forte abraço para você!

Dennis in Phoenix

[Celso Arrais]

Hi Dennis,

I've had a amazing surprise at friday last week, Carla arrived here and I met her personally. It was great, I give her a big hug and we talk for one hour and half drinking a cold beer with her mother, Erika and some nice her friends . She is so nice and she said me that maybe she will go to Canada in july to watch the Jazz Festival. It would be wonderful. What a pity you weren't there also to complete our happiness.

Don't worry about delays, this a very friendly discussion, feel free to answer when you want and have time.

This week particularly, I'm finishing so many things as organizing my bills payments and my luggage, so I think I won't have so much time to post, but I'll provide the message record by voicethread, I promise.

I agree entirely with you about João's participation, I've invited him already.

Um grande abraço e boa semana para você!

Celso Arrais in Brazil

[Dennis Oliver]

Oí, meu amigo Celso.

I thought I had replied to this a long time ago, but apparently I didn't.

I'm really glad you were able to spend time with Carlinha, her mother, Erikinha, and other friends. I hope Carlinha is able to go to Canada in July for the jazz festival and to visit with you. That would be wonderful!

I also wish I'd been able to join all of you in Brasília. That would've been a lot of fun!

Do you know that I've never met Carlinha face to face? Maybe we'll be able to arrange that while she's still in the U.S. She's talked about a possible trip to the Grand Canyon with her family while they're still here. If she does, we might be able to meet in Phoenix. I'd love that!

I know that you've arrived in Canada. I looked at all the photos and will respond to that message next.

I hope your stay in Canada is full of wonderful and enjoyable experiences!

Dennis

[Marcelo Monteiro de Mello]

Hi Celso.

I am very happy about your news. So, are you going to Canana? Great!!! I must confess that I envy you having a so exciting experience. I have sure that you will enjoy every minute and make the most of it. I'm glad for you and I want to keep in touch with you to learn from your experiences.

Best wishes,

Marcelo Mello